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	<title>Comments on: Importance of Buck to Doe Ratio</title>
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	<link>http://www.buckmanager.com/2007/03/11/importance-of-buck-to-doe-ratio/</link>
	<description>Deer Hunting and Habitat Management</description>
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		<title>By: Andy Qualls</title>
		<link>http://www.buckmanager.com/2007/03/11/importance-of-buck-to-doe-ratio/comment-page-1/#comment-2730</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy Qualls</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2010 14:34:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buckmanager.com/2007/03/11/importance-of-buck-to-doe-ratio/#comment-2730</guid>
		<description>I can only speak for myself but it was more of a case of &quot;not thinking at all&quot; than thinking the doe killing was best for my land. The general idea for doe harvest in Oklahoma seemed to be &quot;there are too many deer everywhere, kill all you see.&quot; While this seems ok in some parts of the state and in urbanized fringe areas where hunting is nil or very limited, deer numbers in many areas were reduced to the point that it was difficult even to fill a doe tag. 

Private landowners are gradually becoming &quot;land managers&quot; (this is not to say that some good land managers and good management on public lands such as refuges was not already an is going on) although most had to experience the same startling realization that I did, that &quot;kill all does&quot; is not an accross the board good practice for managing a deer herd. The doe harvest must be based on habitat and deer density as well as buck to doe ratios. 

On both of my hunting areas (within the past 3 years), without any prompting, neighbors have begun to manage the deer herd based on their habitat management and harvesting based on informal deer surveys. As for the first couple of years, there was not much to survey. Deer numbers were very low and the only way to return to a minimal deer herd was to stop harvesing every doe that walked on the place.

This has involved at least 10 different landowners in my area and management goals vary depending on the landowner. Some only harvest large bucks and some are harvesting bucks only until the deer quantities get back where they should be. Either way, the quality of hunting in both areas has improved dramatically.
 
The one fly in the ointment is that a newer landowner that has a fairly large deer camp is totally convinced that there should be no does and all bucks in order to have a &quot;good&quot; deer herd. I expect that this will take care of any doe management problems for all the neighbors without the need to start killing does again. 

The most obvious thing I noticed when we started leaving the does alone was that during the rut, they became an attractant for bucks from adjacent areas that had fewer does. 

As far as public promotion of deer management in Oklahoma, it is still in the form of &quot;kill all does&quot; as opposed to landowner education and deer herd management based of local or regional needs. Most actual management on private lands here comes from lease hunters or landowner/hunters that either realized the need for site specific herd/habitat management based on experiences like mine, or picked up some essentials from sites like yours, or learning from other hunters. 

Otherwise the general management rule for Oklahoma hunters is &quot;if it is a deer shoot it, especially if it is a doe.&quot; While this may be sustainable in some areas without any formal management (usually areas with mimimal hunting pressure) the areas that are overpopulated with deer are usually the areas where no hunting is allowed.

In areas with lots of hunting pressure, the deer population is wiped out every year and only gets replenished by deer filtering in from areas that don&#039;t allow deer hunting. It&#039;s not much fun spending a week in a tree with nothing to watch, except for an occasional squirrel or bird. Many Oklahoma hunters have been there. I didn&#039;t like it.

If you are a person that hunts public land in Oklahoma, there are parts of the state where you have a chance to kill a deer on opening day, and after that, the odds get pretty slim. I am thankful that I no longer have to rely on only on public land and have the chance to learn some real deer management techniques from folks like those here.

Sadly the only deer management taught by Oklahoma game biologists seems to be &quot;kill all does,&quot; no exceptions. Didn&#039;t work for me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can only speak for myself but it was more of a case of &#8220;not thinking at all&#8221; than thinking the doe killing was best for my land. The general idea for doe harvest in Oklahoma seemed to be &#8220;there are too many deer everywhere, kill all you see.&#8221; While this seems ok in some parts of the state and in urbanized fringe areas where hunting is nil or very limited, deer numbers in many areas were reduced to the point that it was difficult even to fill a doe tag. </p>
<p>Private landowners are gradually becoming &#8220;land managers&#8221; (this is not to say that some good land managers and good management on public lands such as refuges was not already an is going on) although most had to experience the same startling realization that I did, that &#8220;kill all does&#8221; is not an accross the board good practice for managing a deer herd. The doe harvest must be based on habitat and deer density as well as buck to doe ratios. </p>
<p>On both of my hunting areas (within the past 3 years), without any prompting, neighbors have begun to manage the deer herd based on their habitat management and harvesting based on informal deer surveys. As for the first couple of years, there was not much to survey. Deer numbers were very low and the only way to return to a minimal deer herd was to stop harvesing every doe that walked on the place.</p>
<p>This has involved at least 10 different landowners in my area and management goals vary depending on the landowner. Some only harvest large bucks and some are harvesting bucks only until the deer quantities get back where they should be. Either way, the quality of hunting in both areas has improved dramatically.</p>
<p>The one fly in the ointment is that a newer landowner that has a fairly large deer camp is totally convinced that there should be no does and all bucks in order to have a &#8220;good&#8221; deer herd. I expect that this will take care of any doe management problems for all the neighbors without the need to start killing does again. </p>
<p>The most obvious thing I noticed when we started leaving the does alone was that during the rut, they became an attractant for bucks from adjacent areas that had fewer does. </p>
<p>As far as public promotion of deer management in Oklahoma, it is still in the form of &#8220;kill all does&#8221; as opposed to landowner education and deer herd management based of local or regional needs. Most actual management on private lands here comes from lease hunters or landowner/hunters that either realized the need for site specific herd/habitat management based on experiences like mine, or picked up some essentials from sites like yours, or learning from other hunters. </p>
<p>Otherwise the general management rule for Oklahoma hunters is &#8220;if it is a deer shoot it, especially if it is a doe.&#8221; While this may be sustainable in some areas without any formal management (usually areas with mimimal hunting pressure) the areas that are overpopulated with deer are usually the areas where no hunting is allowed.</p>
<p>In areas with lots of hunting pressure, the deer population is wiped out every year and only gets replenished by deer filtering in from areas that don&#8217;t allow deer hunting. It&#8217;s not much fun spending a week in a tree with nothing to watch, except for an occasional squirrel or bird. Many Oklahoma hunters have been there. I didn&#8217;t like it.</p>
<p>If you are a person that hunts public land in Oklahoma, there are parts of the state where you have a chance to kill a deer on opening day, and after that, the odds get pretty slim. I am thankful that I no longer have to rely on only on public land and have the chance to learn some real deer management techniques from folks like those here.</p>
<p>Sadly the only deer management taught by Oklahoma game biologists seems to be &#8220;kill all does,&#8221; no exceptions. Didn&#8217;t work for me.</p>
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		<title>By: Buck Manager</title>
		<link>http://www.buckmanager.com/2007/03/11/importance-of-buck-to-doe-ratio/comment-page-1/#comment-2724</link>
		<dc:creator>Buck Manager</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 21:18:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buckmanager.com/2007/03/11/importance-of-buck-to-doe-ratio/#comment-2724</guid>
		<description>Andy, I could not agree with you more. Deer management is about managing a deer herd, not shooting bucks and does simply because they are legal game. It sounds like you may have thought the game laws were in your best interest when you shot all your does off.

In reality, hunting regulations in most states manage deer populations based on regional averages. If your property/area had a lower deer density or offered less than average deer habitat, then it would not be in your best interest to harvest any deer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andy, I could not agree with you more. Deer management is about managing a deer herd, not shooting bucks and does simply because they are legal game. It sounds like you may have thought the game laws were in your best interest when you shot all your does off.</p>
<p>In reality, hunting regulations in most states manage deer populations based on regional averages. If your property/area had a lower deer density or offered less than average deer habitat, then it would not be in your best interest to harvest any deer.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy Qualls</title>
		<link>http://www.buckmanager.com/2007/03/11/importance-of-buck-to-doe-ratio/comment-page-1/#comment-2723</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy Qualls</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 16:11:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buckmanager.com/2007/03/11/importance-of-buck-to-doe-ratio/#comment-2723</guid>
		<description>I have personally observed and hunted public and private properties in Oklahoma where the wildlife department has blanket laws that now allow doe harvest throughout all seasons on all private property. Most properties have no management and no deer surveys and yet the so-called game biologists insist on promoting doe killing.

On many properties the deer herd becomes extinct in just a few years at the prompting of the wildlife department while on public land very limited doe harvest is allowed. 

1. Blanket application of &quot;kill all does&quot; philosophy will extinct your local deer herd if you do not have excess deer to harvest. This actually happened on some of my land and it has taken 3 years of no doe harvest to start seeing deer again. Trail cams indicate about a 1:1 buck doe ratio, although many are still small bucks.
 
2. DO NOT be deceived, if your hunting land is not managed, DO NOT kill every deer you see. Doe hunts ONLY IMPROVE THE HERD WHEN THERE ARE EXCESS DEER NUMBERS or EXCESS DOE TO BUCK RATIO. 

Oklahoma has a decent deer herd but in areas where even moderate hunting pressure exists and does are indiscriminately harvested, the deer population will drop to ZERO!

I also raise cattle and it would be stupid to go out and shoot all my heifers and cows and expect to maintain a herd of animals. With cattle the ratios are different, but forage management and preservation of reproductive volumes must be managed. 

Those who promote across the board doe harvests without other deer management practices are not experts they have other motives for reducing deer herds to zero. Insurance lobbies are probably at the bottom of most doe harvest laws instead of deer management in Oklahoma.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have personally observed and hunted public and private properties in Oklahoma where the wildlife department has blanket laws that now allow doe harvest throughout all seasons on all private property. Most properties have no management and no deer surveys and yet the so-called game biologists insist on promoting doe killing.</p>
<p>On many properties the deer herd becomes extinct in just a few years at the prompting of the wildlife department while on public land very limited doe harvest is allowed. </p>
<p>1. Blanket application of &#8220;kill all does&#8221; philosophy will extinct your local deer herd if you do not have excess deer to harvest. This actually happened on some of my land and it has taken 3 years of no doe harvest to start seeing deer again. Trail cams indicate about a 1:1 buck doe ratio, although many are still small bucks.</p>
<p>2. DO NOT be deceived, if your hunting land is not managed, DO NOT kill every deer you see. Doe hunts ONLY IMPROVE THE HERD WHEN THERE ARE EXCESS DEER NUMBERS or EXCESS DOE TO BUCK RATIO. </p>
<p>Oklahoma has a decent deer herd but in areas where even moderate hunting pressure exists and does are indiscriminately harvested, the deer population will drop to ZERO!</p>
<p>I also raise cattle and it would be stupid to go out and shoot all my heifers and cows and expect to maintain a herd of animals. With cattle the ratios are different, but forage management and preservation of reproductive volumes must be managed. </p>
<p>Those who promote across the board doe harvests without other deer management practices are not experts they have other motives for reducing deer herds to zero. Insurance lobbies are probably at the bottom of most doe harvest laws instead of deer management in Oklahoma.</p>
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		<title>By: Buck Manager</title>
		<link>http://www.buckmanager.com/2007/03/11/importance-of-buck-to-doe-ratio/comment-page-1/#comment-2518</link>
		<dc:creator>Buck Manager</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Dec 2009 15:09:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buckmanager.com/2007/03/11/importance-of-buck-to-doe-ratio/#comment-2518</guid>
		<description>DFWR-  As long as you keep surveying the whitetail herd, keep the total deer number at the proper level for the property, and maintain the buck to doe ratio at 1:2, you should not have to worry about not having deer.

In addition, fewer does usually tightens the fawning dates, increases the amount of food per animal, and leads to better fawn crops. This year was particulary dry, so even the best properties and even those that provide free-choice supplemental feed saw much lower fawn crops. Tracking the herd through surveys on an annual basis is the only way to identify these factors and adjust yearly harvest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DFWR-  As long as you keep surveying the whitetail herd, keep the total deer number at the proper level for the property, and maintain the buck to doe ratio at 1:2, you should not have to worry about not having deer.</p>
<p>In addition, fewer does usually tightens the fawning dates, increases the amount of food per animal, and leads to better fawn crops. This year was particulary dry, so even the best properties and even those that provide free-choice supplemental feed saw much lower fawn crops. Tracking the herd through surveys on an annual basis is the only way to identify these factors and adjust yearly harvest.</p>
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		<title>By: DFWRoadkill</title>
		<link>http://www.buckmanager.com/2007/03/11/importance-of-buck-to-doe-ratio/comment-page-1/#comment-2517</link>
		<dc:creator>DFWRoadkill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 23:04:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buckmanager.com/2007/03/11/importance-of-buck-to-doe-ratio/#comment-2517</guid>
		<description>Thanks! We&#039;ll keep on keepin&#039; on. I&#039;m just worried that by reducing our doe population with a low fawn recruitment, we&#039;ll wake up some day with no deer. However, we&#039;ll stick with his advice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks! We&#8217;ll keep on keepin&#8217; on. I&#8217;m just worried that by reducing our doe population with a low fawn recruitment, we&#8217;ll wake up some day with no deer. However, we&#8217;ll stick with his advice.</p>
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